Do total sales suggest a book is a literary classic, which will transcend time and be the subject of English and Humanities courses in the future? If so, will students of the future study Harry Potter, Twilight and 5o Shades of Grey as master works of writing?
Name at least one book written in the last 100 years that
you think will be literary stalwart in higher education in the same way as works
from Dante, Shakespeare and Homer? Make sure to give your reasoning.
Chris C.
ReplyDeleteLord of the Flies by William Golding.
I feel like this book is a look deep into the human psyche on the most basic level, that of children. Psychology and sociology students will be reading this book more and more in the future, at least they should be.
In response to Chris C.
DeleteGreat pick, your absolutely right.... Lord of the Flies was a great look into the human psyche. Awesome book, another good one is "A Clockwork Orange" by Anthony Burgess.
Gbenga A.43 In response to Chris C
DeleteLord of the Flies is a very good pick. It's a literary classic that stands out amongst the rest. It has earned for itself several Nobel awards of which TIME magazine recently chose the book as one of the best English Language novels. It's a book that has the capability of awakening the psyche in Psychology and Sociology students in the future.
Mia A 44 reply of Chris C.
DeleteI think this book will be around for a very long time.
Eric D.44
ReplyDeleteFarenheit 451 by Ray Bradbury. This book was already way ahead of it's time in terms of how the world was going to be in the future. This book along with 1984, by George Orwell, both paint a grim picture of a future that many thought would never come to fruition. And yet, details of both books have emerged as truths in our present world, so both of these should be in the same class as Shakespeare, especially since there's no actual proof that there was an actual guy named "William Shakespeare." What other futuristic probabilities will be unraveled upon furthur reading into these two books?
Meredith N.44
ReplyDelete100 years from now Gone With the Wind might be a novel that will be read in the future. It tells about a time in our nation's history when divisons among people existed because of race and social class. Many characters in the novel reveal the interactions between slaves and their masters. Women's roles are also evident. Scarlett is a character that show determination and perserverance. The Civil War that takes place shows how a country can be divided and yet still come together. The novel also shows part of our country's history. The movie is good to watch- either way though it is a long story.
Mia A 44 reply of Meredith N. 44
DeleteI think this book will be around for a while because of the women or their roles at that time.
Carmen G. 87 Online
ReplyDeleteThere is a book that may not be extremely popular that I read called Kindred that may be relevant in the next 100 years or so. The book is about an African American woman that goes back in time to save her White ancestor that was a slave owner.She can't let him die or she will never be born. The woman is allowed to see a different overall perspective of the south during the slavery era. In my opinion it is creatively written and it just holds your attention from beginning to end.
Elizabeth M. 44
DeleteThat sounds like a great book! I am going to read it. Who is the author?
Carmen G. 87 Online
ReplyDeleteI agree, Lord of the Flies is a great book and I definitely think it will be relevant as well, because it explains how children develop order. I also forgot to mention the book Animal Farm.
Kitrina B49
ReplyDeleteOne book i really enjoyed on many different levels was "The Shack". Not only was it an uplifting and spiritual book, it was based in truth (according to the author). It was an easy read and was a short enough book that it was not intimidating from the start. The story line was amazing in my opinion and the ending was a nice surprise for me. I would recommend this book to everyone. It could make even the biggest pessimist a believer in something bigger...This book has been recommended many times to me by others and I have recommended it as well. i hope you all will read this book and see what I am talking about. AWESOME BOOK!!!
Candace Brown 49
ReplyDeleteI think i book that should be read 100 years from now is Black Creek Crossing by John Saul, it captures your hearts and makes you think twice on when you bully someone or bully someone who already has abusive parents or with money. The book is really well written and captures your imagination. I enjoyed every second of reading it and could not put it down.
Ken T.49
ReplyDeleteI have yet to read it, but I thought about The Help by Kathryn Stockett and its presentation of the black help (maid) and her side and untold story during the 1960s. This stimulates the perfect example of the Race Theory Criticism and its use within today’s literary classes.
Jordan P. 43
ReplyDeleteI definitely think that Harry Potter is a literary classic and will be studied by students of the future. It is the best selling book series in history and has had movies and even a theme park made about it. It will be around for a very long time and will most likely be read by many generations still to come.
Mia A reply of Jordan P.
DeleteThis book will be around for a while because its a great read for all ages.
Honestly, I dont think any will ever come close to classics. However, I do think in the future some of our most recent series (harry potter, twilight, Lord of the Rings, Hunger Games) will all be studied. These series were great sellers and were actually great stories. They depicted many different writing styles and great character building.
ReplyDeleteThere are also some books that came out within the last 100 years and are already being used to study.
1984 - George Orwell
To Kill a Mockingbird - Harper Lee
The Great Gatsby - Scott Fitzgerald
I cant remember any more right now, but I am sure there are more.
Jordan P. 43 in response to Clint W. 44
DeleteI also think The Hunger Games will be studied in the future, especially because I have heard many people who say they think that in the future our world will really be like it is in The Hunger Games.
I also agree with you on the Great Gatsby. I had to read and study that in high school and now a movie is being made about it.
Frances M 847 in response to Clint W 44
DeleteI totally agree with you on these books being read now will be studied because of its depiction of the future. But in my post I mentioned 1984 would be a good piece of literature to read because it reflected the future of what it is now and vice versa with the recent books like Hunger Games. Its like opening the book to the future.
Chandis Cagle
ReplyDeleteI haven't had the time to read any books that consist of this topic. So I am very clueless in what to write as a comment.
I've only read play books for american literature and I think the only book that i've really read for a project was To Kill A Mockingbird.
Maile F. 44 response to Chandis C.
DeleteI am with you on this 100%. i have no spare time for reading. Not a really good excuse but it is the truth. The only things that I read are what I have to, not what I want too.
Danielle D. 49 I believe John Steinbeck's, Of Mice and Men, is an excellent book that could one day be revered as a classic. The book shows the life of the working class on farms and the struggles of everyday life. What can be more classic than a story of the way life used to be.
ReplyDeleteKathryn C. 43 online in response to Danielle D. 49
DeleteI have read this book and it does represent a way of life long forgotton. My children look at me with great horror when I tell of the man who used to farm with a mule until 1992. I saw this man every day and my children simply can not fathom that idea!
Marci K. 09 in response to Danielle D. 49
DeleteOf Mice and Men is such a great book, and depicts not only a simpler life but a life of hard work and pride, something that is easily forgotten. I also think its important for our future to understand where they come from, not only from a political standpoint but the hard work of a simpler life but a pivotal life.
Mark W. 49
ReplyDeleteIt's funny that Danielle picked "Of Mice and Men" because i'm going with John Steinbeck also. With the current economy and the ongoing droughts, I would pick "The Grapes of Wrath". This book chronicles the plight of the lower-class, migrant farm worker during the dust bowl era. I'm seriously afraid that this might be relevant in years to come due to the extinction of the middle class. I also chose this novel because it's a great story and Steinbeck, in my opinion, is one of the best writers in American literature.
There's nothing like a good history lesson. I noticed Clint and Chandice suggested that 'To Kill a Mockingbird' by Harper Lee was a good one. It's a given, seeing as in our early highschool years we were required (not by ourselves, don't worry) to read it regardless of what school for the most part it seems. This was a literary classic the likes of Homer's Iliad in the sense that we (for the most part) DEFINITELY end up reading it before base graduation. To Kill a Mockingbird isn't the only one, but I imagine it's probably staying... like Mary Shelley's Frankenstein that touches up on alienation and human instinct, curiosity and consequence, gooood lessons from these books, you know?
ReplyDeleteA book that I think will be required for students to read is "Their Eyes Are Watching God". I say that because the book really exploits the cruelty that Blacks had to deal with.
ReplyDeleteVann H. 88
ReplyDeleteI do think the amount of sales indicates the perceived quality of the work by the readers. If I had to pick a book that i believed would transcend time I would choose the Star Wars saga. George Lucas will absolutely be remebered as a gifted writter by future generations. On top of Star Wars Lucas has also created Indiana Jones and American Graffiti. Star Wars also serves as a book/movie filled with predictions of the future.
Vann H. 88 in response to Danielle D. 49
ReplyDeleteI think you are on the right track with "Of Mice and Men". Your predictions have already come true. I was required to read this book when I was in high school.
Bernadette M43 to Meredith N.44
ReplyDeleteI agree with you, Gone with the Wind would also be my choice. It is not only a study of history but also a study of people, love, war, and changing times.
Sopheak P49
ReplyDeleteI think any one of James Patterson's books could be studied in the future.He won many awards and a lot of his books were made into movies and television shows.
Tokunbo Nasamu N44,i would say purple hibiscus .the Auther is a young African Lady that has won several awards including including the 2005 british common wealth literature prize.The book has gained recommendations in higher institutions of learning since the time.
ReplyDeleteLeslie B. 49
ReplyDeleteI think that sales may play a part in determining if a book is considered a classic, although all books, t.v. programs, and movies that have a large audience do not deserve the title.
I think "The Shack" would be a great book to study for future generations. It is thought provoking, well written, (though a little wordy for my limited attention span in old age), and contains a twist.
I would recommend it to anyone who likes a fast, suspenseful read and isn't afraid of some spirituality.
This book literally changed my life for the better.
Jessica F 44
ReplyDeleteTo Kill a Mockingbird by Harper Lee can be a book that we keep for education in the future. This captures the sociology of racism and the psychology of the human behavior of the 1930’s in southern states. Lee provide an example of racism and how society judged Atticus for sticking to his moral belief that he must do the right thing no matter what circumstances. Lee provides a view point of the story from an eight year old girl growing up. This book takes the broad aspect of society from racism, drug addiction and of sort a mob mentality of the southern communities view points in the 1930’s. This book is a good fictional representation of history.
Mia A. 44 in response to Jessica F. 44
DeleteI also think this book reveals a part of our history, stereotypes and discrimination. And thus could be a classic in years to come. I remembered how thought provoking this book was for me as a teen in high school.
Jessica F. 44 Online In response to Danielle D.49
ReplyDeleteI would have to agree the f Mice and Men by John Steinbeck will become a part of the higher education. This book has already incorporated itself into the high school settings. It shows of the 1930’s view point of rural America. Showing the ability of people from cruelty to the childlike innocence they can provided.
Annsley Baldwin 75
ReplyDeleteI do think that the total sales is a huge reason it can become a literary classic. I feel that The Help by Kathryn Stockett will be in the running for our future students to read and study. It is a great novel that is based on Racism and how a black maid speaks about her life working in a white home. This is a great fiction novel and one to read!
Kristel B 43 in response to Annsley
DeleteAhh, silly me, I didn't even think about The Help. You have an excellent point, Annsley. Not only does it have a good plot, it covers some history and yet has some fantastic points we can correlate to today's day in age.
Annsley Baldwin 75 in response to Leslie B 49
ReplyDeleteI do agree that just because the book/movie has a high audience and sales, that it should not be the only factor in making it a classic. I did hear about The Shack from my father! He kept going on and on about how great the book was. I just might have to grab it the next time I'm visiting him.
Kayla F. 49
ReplyDeleteI think that Gone with the Wind is a book that will touch generations to come.It is a beautiful novel and film.It tackles many issues,pre snd post war.Georgia students will find it interesting because it is set in Ga.They might can relate to it better.Love,hardships,and truimphs were the main points and i think that is very influencial.
Tammy B.44
DeleteI agree and selected the same book. I love the movie and I havent read the book yet but when I get the time I will to see how it is different from the movie. I really think it would show alot about history and how people learned to survive.
Victoria S. 43 in response to Kayla F. 49
DeleteOh! Gone with the wind! I wish that I would've thought about this one. I loved gone with the wind and would definetly be a classic as time goes by!
Eric D.44 in response to Danielle D.49. I liked OF MICE AND MEN as a book as well because it's not only the tale of a farm and how work used to be, but it also deals with aspergers, which I think the slow-minded farm-hand is handicapped with.
ReplyDeleteFrances M 847
ReplyDeleteI think the book 1984 would be a good piece of literature to read because of the government trying to take control of everyone's move because it can be compared to what is going on today. This can draw a good audience so we can be more involved with what is going on around us. I'm sure you can get conversation going in a class with tis type of literature.
Kathryn C. 43 online.
ReplyDeleteI thought about " The Pursuit of Happyness". I read the book and managed to see the movie also. This book shows how humans can survive anything and with the right motivation can achieve great things. It also shows how as a society we judge others to quickly by their appearance and wealth. It also shows how one man was able to overcome great obstacles and achieve great things. This is truly a book that everyone should read and think about how this man felt as he lived it.
Tammy B.44
ReplyDeleteI think that Gone with the Wind would be a great book for our future Americans to read. I think that it includes alot of our history about how people learned to survive and it shows different cultures and how people overcame war and poverty.
Kristel B 43 Online
ReplyDeleteThat's actually a fairly scary thought to think of. Is there really any comparison to today's writing compared to 100 years ago when words almost seemed precious and valued? I feel like the writing quality has declined as time passed and the skill and art of writing is no longer equivalent to what it use to be. Part of the reason is because kids in school today don't understand or take time to learn how Shakespeare or Homer wrote and now we have come into a day in age when texting has creating a whole new world of language, devaluing the art of literature. I can't see how any of these books would be a source of study. There may be some good books out there, but are there really and genuinely good books that are able to withstand time?
Gbenga A.43
ReplyDeleteThe only book that keeps coming to mind is "Things Fall Apart" by Chinua Achebe. This is a literary classic that will beyond a doubt transcend time and be passed on to generations yet unborn. This is a literature book that is a major part of the curriculum of students taking any literature course, especially those from Africa. It was surprising to me when I came to this country to realize that it's also a well known literature book. As a matter of fact, it was mentioned by my English composition lecturer when I was taking that class.
Lizzy A.44 online in response to Gbenga A.43
DeleteThis is actually an interesting book that talks in depth about diversities in Nigerian culture which would help to bring out those required leadership qualities in the up coming young generation.
Elizabeth M. 44
ReplyDeleteI do not think that book sales necessarily make the book a classic. There are countless bestsellers that are merely entertaining and will be shortly forgotten, most murder mystery novels for example. Other bestsellers will be remembered and read for years to come, but I do not think they will be studied in the classroom, Twilight, Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings...etc. There are several books written over the last hundred years that are already being studied in the classroom, The Catcher in the Rye by J.D. Salinger (one of my favorites), Lord of the Flies by William Golding, and Of Mice and Men by John Steinbeck.
Other works of literary genius, in my opinion, that will or should be read and studied for years to come are One flew over the cuckoo’s nest by Ken Kesey, Slaughterhouse Five by Kurt Vonnegut, On the Road by Jack Kerouac and the more recent, Middlesex by Jeffrey Eugenides. These are all books that are incredibly well written and/or have some deeper meaning and are written in intriguing metaphor.
Marci K. 09
ReplyDeleteI do not think total sales indicates whether a book should be considered a classic. A large number of books written today have pure entertainment value. Although, there is one book I think could ultimately end up in a humanities class and that is the Hunger Games. Just like 1984 by Orwell speculates the future state of our country, our rights as citizens and the control of the government in our daily lives, the Hunger games does as well. As our society evolves, the way we interact, the freedoms we have and the daily workings of the American people will change. It would be interesting to see what is said about the trilogy 50-75 years form now.
JALAACYA M43 ONLINE IN RESPONSE TO Marci K.09
DeleteI said the same thing in my response. If book sales determine if books were classics then you would have Eric Jerome Dickey and many other romance and game books would be on my next list of required books to read for class.
Jeff m -34
ReplyDelete"How to Win Friends and Influence People" by Dale Carnegie. Carnagie was an American writer and lecturer and the developer of famous courses in self-improvement, salesmanship, corporate training, public speaking and interpersonal skills. His writings are still used today in business development. It transends into life ingeneral as well
Meredith N.44 in Response to Marci K.09
ReplyDeleteI agree that total book sales is not a way to judge good literature. Our news is reporting daily of ways our government want to change our lives. The last big subject has to do with healthcare. Reading books that deal with government involvement in our lives may help us to think about how to respond and get involved in our political process. Thinking about the books may help us avoid total control in our lives by government agenices.
Maile F. 44
ReplyDeleteI am sad to say that no book comes to mind. I can not think of anything that I have read that would even qualify. I read tons of books for my English and Humanatites classes but none that I think are influential in any way. Sorry :(
M. Ahn 44
ReplyDeleteI think Adventures of Huckleberry Finn by Mark Twain will be a classic in the future. To name a few, it reveals originality, racism, friendship, and the struggles with mainstream beliefs and society. I think in any generation, students or people will be able to relate to their own life symbolically by reading this book.
Katarzyna C. 33 online
ReplyDeleteI think that I would have to say that the book “The Help” would transcend time and be the subject of English and Humanities courses in the future. The book is about a white woman trying to write a book about the struggles and everyday life of black women that work in the home of rich white people in the 1960’s. Through this the women all make a great unexpected connection with one another. The story is really heart felt and it deals with real human emotions such as love, pain, friendship, and heartache. I all these emotions are still relevant today and the story in the book ties it to what really happened in history, and this is why I think that it will have a great impact in future learning.
Katarzyna C. 33 online in response to M. Ahn 44
ReplyDeleteThe Adventures of Huckleberry Finn was a great book! I remember when I was younger we were required to read it in school.. at that time I really didn’t have that great of an appreciation for it as I do now. I actually re-read that book a few years back and loved it!
Karen S.49
ReplyDeleteI think that Hunger Games and Harry Potter will be studied. I have heard that the books are better than the movie although I haven't read them. I've only seen the Harry Potter movie ,However a book that I think should be studied but may not ever be. Is Mandingo it's about slave masters that would fight their strongest african american slave men against one another and bet money on who would win. It also show how slave masters would sleep with the african american women and that was how mixed and light skinned children came about. The ending of the story is that the slve master wife became jealous of the children that he had with his slave and his wife began sleeping with one of the slaves while he was away and she then became pregnant herself. Once she had her baby it was born black and that is when all choas breaks loose.
Victoria S. 43
ReplyDeleteI believe Harry Potter will forever be a huge classic! Twilight, and 50 shades were great books but Harry Potter will forever have my heart. And I believe that it will forwever have the hearts of other readers.
Christy Williams online 43
ReplyDeleteIn response to M Ahn 44
Mark Twain's "Adventures of Huck Finn", were studied when I was in school and we talked about the relationships between the white and black lines that did exist as relative to time. There was talk of "book burning", when parents realized - younger opinions seemed more open to the thinking of those children (that we are all just people). I think Mark Twain knew this not by accident in his writings. Also with much controvesy now "Uncle Remus's" stories by Joe Harris, from Atlanta. These stories teach that sometimes life is tricky. We have to learn to read between the lines to understand that people are/can be decieving, regardless of color and you can't tell the good guys from the bad based on color, class, or what others may say. You really have to judge people and rabbits individually.
Christy W online 43
ReplyDeleteI have to admit that I have not read "Harry Potter" or the "Twilight", series. But I have read the "50 Shades of Gray" and I don't really know that these will be studied in the future. I don't think that being a "Best Seller" is the qualifier. I hope not. But perhaps this is what older generations said of "Mark Twain's" chapters of Tom Sawyer and Huckleberry Finn. I do also like the book "1984", "The Help", and I think writers try and incorporate "conflict" theories in hopes of future generations learning better ways of living and coping.
Lizzy A.44
ReplyDeleteGone with the wind is a book that made a lot of exposition on slavery and racism, more especially slavery in the southern region of America. The novel opens in prewar Georgia, where tradition, chivalry, and pride thrive. As the Civil War begins, the setting shifts to Atlanta, where the war causes the breakdown of traditional gender roles and power structures. When the South loses the war and the slaves are freed, putting a stop to the Southern way of life, the internal conflict intensifies. This book will give a lot of insight to students to know what has happened in the past about slavery and how long the issue of racism has been on.
Erelin R- in responce to Lizzy
DeleteI agree gone with the wind is a great book. This book taught me more about the civil war and history than my elemntary school did in NJ. I always say you have to know your past to move on in life and I think this book does that for Americans
jalaacya M43. online
ReplyDeleteI think top sales don't determine if a book is a classic. Books like Harry Potter shouldn't be used for future English classes. I don't read too many books anymore i barely have the time, so i cant really suggest a book for this topic. I do agree with A Walk to Remember this book actually has something to say and is closer to real life situations.
Samantha B: Gone with the Wing is a good choice, but I also believe that Harry Potter would be great for students to read in school. I always hated reading books that did not excite me. And I think that 50 years down the road, Harry Potter will still excite new readers.
ReplyDeleteI have read through everyones suggestions, and i do belive that "The Hunger Games", " Their Eyes were Watching God," and Gone With The Wind" are amazing books. however, I believe the worl needs to teach children how to survive if it is left to them such as "Lord of the Flies". these kids divided themselves and set out to kill one aonther becaues someone did not want to agree with the majority. Also "To Kill a Monkingbird was also a great book that views salvery and when Aunt Jemima's were there to help raise kids and show them the true values of life.
ReplyDeleteJake C.55
ReplyDeleteOne book I think should be given it's due and studied more is the graphic novel "Watchmen". I feel like it is often written off as a comic book (Which it IS NOT), but the reality is, it is probably one of the most complex and rich piece of literature out there.
Tokunbo n44.I also think thing fall apart by Chinwe Acebe.that book is an epic
ReplyDeleteWole Shoyinkas books as well
DeleteMichaelia B. 43
ReplyDeleteI do not believe that total sales of a book will determine the future of academics. i certainly hope that my 3 year old son does not have to worry about reports or essays on harry potter and the twilight series. Since my children are visual learners, I try to find the movie to great books and novels that I had read as a child such as "of mice and me" and "to kill a mockingbird" and I ask questions along the way to make sure that they are understanding.
JimellaB43 in response to MichaeliaB43
Deleteyour right. Those books are entirely too long and for what? what are they really teaching the kids? "To Kill a Mocking Bird" is a great book and movie with meaning behind it. It's a book children can really learn from and understand.
Sabrina Page(online student)
ReplyDeleteHonestly, I am going to have to take a wack at this and go with 50 Shades of Gray. I loved all 3 novels, maybe because of the age I'm at but I got a lot of it for it to be all about sex. Taking from this novel, I can see it being studied to further health classes, and to help kids udnerstand certain views on sex, and what we should really feel. It starts out as just pleasure, and eventually turns into love. In the teen world, closer to juniors and Seniors, I believe in the long run it will become of some use. Plus, Kids are interested in books that are well, interesting.
Arveolla M.43
Delete50 Shades of Gray is a great read. I have found myself and other classmates along with my professor in another class talking about the novel.
i think that catcher in the rye is an excellent book that will be remember for 100's of years. It is a book that explains how life can be looked at either through a small window of perspective, or you can realize that there is so much more out there. Although the book has costs many people's lives to be taken, such as john lennon, it is a strong stated book about all the fake people around us. It has been around for a long time, and i see it being around for even longer.
ReplyDeleteErelin R-44
ReplyDeleteI waited to answer this post only because I tried to think of the last time I read anything other than my school assignment or my bible reading. Honestly I have not read anything that you all have read. I unfortunately am one of the few that thinks reading is boring and I know that is bad to say but it true so unfornutaly I will not be a great contribution to future society.
JimellaB43
ReplyDeleteI believe Fahrenheit 451 is a book they may use in the future as a tool for teaching. I say this because the book was mostly about a future American society where books are outlawed and firemen burn any house that contains them. It was true in so many aspects. Who knows reading books in the future will be a thing of the past. The world is already using other technology that shines away from picking up a book every once,in a while. TV,the internet and cell phones are just a few tools taking the focus off reading.
I think to Kill A Mocking Bird is a great book. When I was in high school many of years ago we had to read it and do a report. I think that this book will be around for a long time. It show the struggles African American had to go thru. I think kids need to read this book to see how good they have it.
ReplyDeleteArveolla M. 43
ReplyDeleteThere are a lot of great books that have been published and honestly I think that it should be a book to where there is no movie about it. I think that movies really go off the story line of the book because they are either trying to lengthen the book or cut it short.
Quadarius H.49
ReplyDeleteI think to kill a mockingbird is a very influentul book in the last 100 years. Harper lee did a very good job of using memorable characters to explors the civil Rights in the late 1930s. Many kids have to read this book in school. I know my english class read this my 8th grade year also
AnissaG43
ReplyDeleteI think "Pay It Forward" by Catherine Ryan Hyde will be around for years to come. A twelve year old boy accepts his social studies teacher's challenge to come up with a plan to change the world by doing a good deed for 3 people and end up spreading beyond his small town. This is a good lesson for young children and adults to see that they can make a difference in the one persons life by doing something nice for someone else without expecting something in return.
AnissaG43 online in response to QuadariusH49
ReplyDeleteI agree with you about To Kill a Mockingbird I had to read that book also in grade school it was a very good book.
Dana Y43
ReplyDeleteI believe the help will be studied. It gave great inside to racism and civil right during that time in history.